This conversation focuses on contemporary thoughts about play, making and breaking, entitled Brink as a frame for playing with stuff up to and even beyond breaking point in part to understand material, its form, functions, processes and meanings. And perhaps sometimes just for the hell of it! Brought together because of their shared interests and practices, which include investigating the properties and conventions of matter, from the mundane to the magical, the contributors are Zoe Laughlin, a designer and materials engineer who studied Art then Science and co-founded the Institute of Making, and Freddie Robins an award-winning artist and educator who challenges the perception of knitting as a benign, undervalued domestic activity, pushing it into sculptural and metaphorical territories.